Hello everyone . Today I feel very honored to be here to meet you . About a few months ago , Stanford invited me to lecture . I did not expect . Many people say that because of all about Yahoo , Alibaba, and many other news, this time to speak here is very sensitive . But since I made a promise that I came. Today, if you have any questions to ask me, I will be qestions.
To answer every I came to the United States today is the first 15 days , and I intend to stay here for a year . No one knows this plan . Even my company do not know. You asked me why I came here . To intend to do to prepare for the acquisition of Yahoo ? No, we are too sensitive. I came here because I'm tired. Over the past 16 years was too tired . In 1994 I created my career, discovered the Internet, and crazy, and then gave up my teaching job . At that time I felt like a Mongolian eyes like riding on the back of the tiger blind , all the way to throw beat fight, but still struggle, survive . Work for the government for 16 months after the 1999 establishment of Ali Baba .
We are also fortunate to have a Taobao , Alipay , Ali clouds and other companies under the Group . Therefore , the establishment of Ali Baba 12 years later , I decided to rest for some time. In particular, this year's challenge is too difficult , and this is what I did not expect to . Chinese people say that every 12 years is an animal year . Alibaba in China this year happens to be the first 12 years, have encountered many difficult issues , such as suppliers of fraud earlier this year because of events leading to the resignation of chief executive officer , as well as the VIE issue , although I still do not know now what is the VIE , as well as the company's Taobao split into four decisions. So busy after all these things I'm tired . I told myself , why not spend a year rest. In particular, next year is my personal year, which would surely be more difficult this year . I want to spend a little more time to properly prepare to meet next year more difficult and more difficult challenge . I need a good rest in order for the 3-4 years after the challenge to prepare. This year if things went wrong, we can criticize Taobao , Alibaba CEO or Ali cloud . But after three years , if things went wrong, and that is my fault. So I'm going to spend some time in the United States ponder and relax. Two days ago, I started practicing again from golf to relax . Therefore, the purpose of coming to the U.S. is really not so complicated is that we speculate .
We are a very lucky company. I have no background, no wealthy father , nor very powerful uncles , do not want to have the chance of success. I remember in 1999 came to Silicon Valley looking for funding , with many venture capitalists approached , also went to the Menlo Park area meetings . But no one interested in investing in Alibaba, I was eleven nixed . Returned to China , did not get a little capital . However, I am full of confidence. I saw the American dream. I have seen the rapid growth of Silicon Valley , I have seen many company parking lot whether it is day or night , Monday to Sunday , all full of parked cars . I believe that rapid growth will occur in China . Then I founded Alibaba, 12 years have passed , and today made a lot of achievements. But before that , no one believes B2B able development in China . At that time the famous B2B companies including American Ariba.com, Broadvision and Commerce One, the company's main clients are large companies buyers . China in the near future there will be no one think that the emergence of large companies , while large companies will not have the demand for e-commerce , because all the big companies are attributed to the government , they only need to meet the government 's policy can be. But my belief is that we must focus on small companies , because the future is the private sector of the world, so we have to focus on small businesses.
Also, large U.S. companies are very focused on B2B buyers, U.S. buyers who need a lot of suggestions to help save costs and time overhead . But I believe that SMBs need help in this regard , they are worse than we are , know more than . We should focus on to help them make money , the products exported out. At that time we also encountered many challenges, but 12 years later, today's world there are 580,000 small businesses use Alibaba to do business. Our business model compared with Tencent or Baidu may not be very attractive , we do not rely on online games to make money. But we can sleep peacefully at night , because we know that we earn from online games are not up to. Our revenues have grown by helping small businesses come , which I am very proud of . Until today I have not as much money Alibaba proud , I had to influence and help us to other people, especially small business owners and proud !
Before the Internet , no one can help more than 50 million SMEs . But today, we are trying to do so. People will tell me , Ma , Alibaba if you can do a good job , that is equivalent to several tons of sheep you will transported to the top of the Himalayas . I said , yes, we will ship them down . And we did. The second company is Taobao . Everyone told me that , my God , you are in competition with eBay ah ! I said , "Why not ? "China needs an e-commerce site . Creating a network of Chinese market will take time and effort. So , at that time I was told to do this in China the game . I said, if you do not always try , how do you know the game ? So we tried it. I said that if eBay is the sea of sharks, then we are in the Yangtze alligator . Let's not fight the sea , we are in the Yangtze River and thought . A beginning is difficult, but a lot of fun . And we finally survived. EBay beginning C2C market in China accounted for 90% . But today , we have the Chinese C2C market share of 90% . We are very fortunate , really just lucky. After a lot of things we can discuss .
Today, we are always writing about Alibaba's success story. But I do not really think how smart we are . We made a lot of mistakes. We were still very stupid. So I was wondering if someday I want to write a book about Ali Baba , I will write "Ali Baba's one thousand and one mistake ."
This is something we should keep in mind , you should learn to do. If you want to know how other people are successful , it is very difficult. Fortunately, there are many factors that success . But if you want to learn how others fail , you will benefit a lot . I always like to explore how people fail to see those books . Because, when you look to the time of analysis , any failure of the company, their failure is not always by the same . And this is the most important. So Taobao successful, then we do Alipay, because everyone says China is no credit system , banks are bad , logistics is very bad, why did you do e-commerce ? Today, I did not come here to tell you is that my business sense , and I did not prepare PPT, because I do not have stock to sell you. But I think because of the backwardness of China 's logistics , credit and banking system , we need to have an entrepreneurial spirit . That's why we need to create your own blueprints. So I believe this thing is that you do first , and then slowly became China 's standards. I remember six years ago when I came to America when I say that I believe that five years later, the population of Internet users in China will surpass the U.S. . People say that they will not. Then I said, the population was 300 million . China has 1.3 billion people, is not it ? If so you have 400 million people , there is no population died , people have to keep a child , you need 50 years. We only need five years, so this is just a matter of time , is not it ? We'll see . Today, the population of Internet users in China than the United States . Then why do people say the purchasing power is so low ? We say after five years . Today , per capita consumption is only about 200 yuan per month . Five years later , these people will be spending 2,000 yuan. And we are very patient . We are still young . I'm old , but the average age of our employees was 26 years old. They are young, so let's look to the future .
Alipay was doing , when we say that this is a silly guarantee services . Where to buy something from a John Doe Joe Smith , but Zhang refused to send money to John Doe, John Doe refused the goods to Joe Smith . So we opened an account with Joe Smith said that the money be remitted to me, if you are satisfied with the goods , then I pay, if you are not satisfied , you return, my money back to John Doe . People say you how silly this model ah ? But we do not care about this model is not stupid, we are concerned that the customer is not the need for such services. We are not satisfy the customer's needs . If this thing is silly , then, today there are more than 600 million Chinese a registered user to use this silly thing . So silly things, if you do every day to improve it a little , then it will become very smart. So today, Alipay is very good, we are still growing . Paypal with Paypal like, but I'm from the trading volume , we are more than Paypal .
Finally, and most importantly, our Alibaba Cloud Computing , the company with other companies who talk about the different cloud computing . Those companies are trying their software and hardware to sell you . But we have nothing to sell. We cloud technology to their own data to calculate. From the SME data from Taobao consumer data, and data from Alipay . We believe in the future . World of the future will be information processing in the world. How well we will share data with others . This will be the core of future commercial . The company currently is not very good , but very profitable .
The entire company is very healthy . People say that a company can not begin to , but we survived. We are very patient. We always ask ourselves the question, "why do we have to work so hard ? One day , I asked my colleague , he told me ,"Jack, I never knew my life can do so many things . Second, I never know what I am doing so meaningful to society . Third, I never knew life was so hard . "We worked day and night , and even now but I am becoming more thin, and looks even more strange , I know life is not easy and we are proud that we change China , rather than you earn a lot of money .
10 years ago , when I walk down the street , someone ran over to thank me, because Ali Baba to help them get foreign orders , foreign business. Today, when I walk down the street , someone came to thank me and said he and his wife opened a Taobao shop, a living and decent income . This, to me , is significant. We will be honest become valuable ( your integrity can be turned into money ) . Many years ago, if you have a good credit history , transaction records, you probably are not rich. Today, if you are on Taobao have a good credit history , transaction records, you will be very rich, because people are willing to do business with reputable stores . We educate consumers to be smart . Someone said to me: Ma , I bought on Taobao is something very, very cheap, you say this is fake it ? Yes, we Taobao fake, fake in real life everywhere. But we spent a lot of effort , a lot of manpower and resources to tackle this problem , in Taobao , 50% of the daily work of staff screening infringement, counterfeit merchandise. But if there is a bottle of red wine, the mall to buy online to 300 dollars, and on Taobao just nine dollars, why is it so ? Because channels , advertising costs. Why do so many consumers want to pay for other expenses ? We help consumers save , so we told consumers that if you buy on Taobao 15 dollars a T-shirt , and it sold for 150 dollars at the mall , it is not because Taobao sell too cheap, that is because the mall to sell expensive. We should help consumers become smarter。
Thirdly, and very importantly, we see a lot of factories in China , especially in Guangdong, they are in fact the company , and not just plants . They just do OEM , after these OEM products sold on Taobao . They do not know who their sales channels, do not understand the final purchase their products to customers . The foundries , in the face of problems arise when ( eg financial crisis ) , it will immediately fall into difficulties . So we should tell these producers, you have to communicate directly with your customers , you should do their own marketing, their own service, this is the real business. Otherwise , you're just a factory. We are changing these factories to reverse this situation, I feel very proud. This has nothing to do with wealth , because if you had a million , you're a rich man , but if you have ten million , you might have trouble. You worry about inflation , so you start investing , then you are likely to encounter difficulties . If you have one billion , that this is not your personal wealth , is the wealth of the society . Your shareholders , investors, think you should be more effective than the use of government money . So they give you confidence , then how do you make good use of the money, worthy of their trust it ? I think this is the challenge we face . Alibaba 's products , in fact, not services, is the people, is our people.
The average age of our employees is 26 years old. We are facing many challenges , which I was not aware of that . There have been a high-level government visits to the Company , he said Ma, Taobao if you have 300 million users , it would have been even better than I manage a big country . I said yes , the management very difficult. No matter what we have to work out a new policy will make us encounter all kinds of pressure . However, users have complained about the time, it seems to be dissatisfied with the formulation of government policies like . Is the average age of 26 employees in the development of Taobao "game rules"
, we have never had such an experience . If we change it, for example, do the search engines, traditional search engines , will sell well , the cheapest standing in the front , but I think we'll make the most of credit and credibility in the front row . After , there will be a lot of people would go to verification. There are 200 people came to our company, told me that we will change the rules of the game and pay the price. My answer is that if this change is correct, we will do so. In front of the world , but also our transformation out . We do not serve the people of the project . We need sociologists , economists, let these people to develop our policy rules . So we still face many challenges. But we still feel proud because I believe that in the 21st century , if you want a successful company , you need to learn is how to solve a problem exists in society , not just learn how to seize several opportunities . It is very easy to seize the opportunity , I'm not bragging, I think today, 12 years after establishment of Alibaba , I think it is very easy to make money , but to stabilize the money, and social responsibility to promote social development, is very difficult to . This is why we are trying to whom , I believe China because of the Internet, in the next three years there will be a great development. This year , people say a lot of China 's stock dropped a lot because the VIE . I believe that if you look at other areas of the economy , such as the United States is currently facing a huge challenge ;such as Europe may already know what to do ;that China will happen ? All occurred in the United States and Europe, the situation can also occur after 2034 in China . After three or four years , China 's economy will face a huge challenge. If you have a premonition that bad things will happen from now on whom it is to prepare , instead of complaining and whining that time . As an Internet company, we must assume our responsibilities. I am not a politician , I only speak for myself , for my clients and the 50 million SMEs 8000000 Taobao sellers speak. In the three years after they how to survive ? This is what I want to go to America to learn the purpose . Like Obama learn how he will increase employment , how would he do , organize experience from our mistakes , and then three years later , with our approach to help ourselves. That's why I come here . I think you must have a lot of questions , I am ready to answer all your questions.
馬云:大家好。我今天感到非常榮幸能來到這里和大家見面。大約幾個(gè)月前,斯坦福邀請我來演講。我沒有意料到。很多人說因?yàn)樗嘘P(guān)于雅虎,阿里巴巴,和許多其他的新聞,這個(gè)時(shí)間點(diǎn)來這里演講是非常的敏感。但是既然我做了一個(gè)承諾,我還是來了。今天如果你有任何問題要問我,我都會(huì)一一回答。
今天是我來美國的第15天,而且我打算在這里待上一年。這個(gè)計(jì)劃沒有人知道。甚至我的公司也不知道。大家問我為什么要來這里。要打算作收購雅虎的準(zhǔn)備嗎?不,大家都太敏感了。我來這里是因?yàn)槲依哿。過去16年來太累了。我在1994年開創(chuàng)我的事業(yè),發(fā)現(xiàn)了互聯(lián)網(wǎng),并為之瘋狂,然后放棄了我的教師工作。那時(shí)候我覺得自己就像是蒙了眼睛騎在盲虎背上似的,一路摔摔打打,但依然奮斗著、生存著。在政府機(jī)關(guān)工作了16個(gè)月之后,1999年建立了阿里巴巴。
我們還幸運(yùn)地?fù)碛兄詫毦W(wǎng),支付寶,阿里云和集團(tuán)下其他的公司。所以, 建立阿里巴巴12年后的今天,我決定需要休息一段時(shí)間。尤其今年的挑戰(zhàn)實(shí)在是太艱辛了,這也是我沒有意料到的。中國人說每12年是一個(gè)本命年。阿里巴巴 今年在中國剛好是第12年,也遇上了許多棘手的問題,好比今年初因?yàn)楣⿷?yīng)商欺詐事件導(dǎo)致首席執(zhí)行官辭職,還有VIE的問題,雖然我到現(xiàn)在仍然不知道什么是VIE,以及把淘寶分成四個(gè)公司的決策。所以,忙完所有這些事情之后我累了。我告訴自己,為什么不花個(gè)一年好好休息。尤其明年是我個(gè)人的本命年,肯定會(huì)比今年更辛苦。我想要花多一點(diǎn)時(shí)間好好準(zhǔn)備,迎接明年更艱苦更困難的挑戰(zhàn)。我需要好好休息才能為3到4年后的挑戰(zhàn)做好準(zhǔn)備。這三年如果事情出了錯(cuò),大家可以批評淘寶,阿里巴巴或阿里云的首席執(zhí)行官。但是三年后,如果事情出了錯(cuò),那就是我的錯(cuò)。所以我準(zhǔn)備在美國花上一段時(shí)間好好思考和放松。前兩天,我開始再次練習(xí)起高爾夫球,好好放松。所以,來美國的目的真的不像是大家揣測的這么復(fù)雜。
我們是一間非常幸運(yùn)的公司。我沒有任何的背景,沒有富裕的父親,也沒有很有權(quán)勢的叔伯們,根本不用想能夠有成功的機(jī)會(huì)。我記得1999年來到硅谷尋找資金,跟很多風(fēng)投、資本家接洽,也去了Menlo Park一帶開會(huì)。但是沒有人有興趣投資阿里巴巴,我被一一回拒。回到了中國,一點(diǎn)資本都沒拿到。但是,我充滿了信心。我看到了美國夢。我看到硅谷的快速成長,我看到許多公司的停車場不管是白天或黑夜,周一到周日,都是停滿了車。我相信那種快速的成長也會(huì)發(fā)生在中國。接著我創(chuàng)立阿里巴巴,12年過去了,到今天取得了很多的成績。但在那之前,沒有人相信B2B能夠在中國發(fā)展。當(dāng)時(shí)B2B美國有名的公司包括Ariba.com, Broadvision 和Commerce One,這些公司主要的客戶都是大公司的買家們。沒有人覺得中國近期內(nèi)會(huì)有大公司的出現(xiàn),而大公司也不會(huì)有電子商務(wù)的需求,因?yàn)樗写蠊径际菤w于政府,他們只需要配合政府的政策就可以。但我的信念是,我們必須要專注在小型公司,因?yàn)槲磥硎撬綘I企業(yè)的天下,所以我們必須把重點(diǎn)放在小型企業(yè)。
還有,美國大公司的B2B是非常專注于買家,美國的買家們需要許多建議來幫忙節(jié)省成本開銷和時(shí)間。但是我相信中小企業(yè)們不需要這方面的幫忙,他們比我們還厲害,懂得還多。我們應(yīng)該專注于幫他們賺錢,把產(chǎn)品外銷出去。當(dāng)時(shí)我們也遇到很多挑戰(zhàn),但是12年過去了,今天全球有58萬的小型企業(yè)都使用阿里巴巴來做生意。我們的生意模式跟騰訊或百度相比可能并不是十分吸引人,我們也并不靠網(wǎng)絡(luò)游戲賺錢。但是我們晚上可以睡得安穩(wěn),因?yàn)槲覀冎牢覀冑嵉腻X并不是從網(wǎng)絡(luò)游戲上來的。我們的收入是靠幫助小企業(yè)們成長來的,這點(diǎn)我感到十分的驕傲。直到今天我都沒有為阿里巴巴賺了多少錢而驕傲過,我為我們影響和幫助了其他人,尤其是小企業(yè)主而驕傲!
在互聯(lián)網(wǎng)之前,沒有人可以幫助超過5000萬的中小企業(yè)。但是今天,我們正在努力這么做。人們會(huì)跟我說,馬云,如果你能把阿里巴巴搞好,那相當(dāng)于你將好幾噸羊運(yùn)到了喜馬拉雅山頂上。我說,是的,我們還會(huì)把他們運(yùn)下來。而且我們做到了。第二個(gè)公司是淘寶。大家都跟我說,天哪,你是在跟eBay競爭啊!我說,“為什么不?”中國需要一個(gè)電子商務(wù)網(wǎng)站。創(chuàng)建一個(gè)中國的網(wǎng)絡(luò)交易市場需要時(shí)間跟精力。所以,那個(gè)時(shí)候人們告訴我在中國做這個(gè)沒戲。我說,如果你總是不嘗試,你怎么知道沒戲?所以我們就嘗試了。我說如果eBay是大海里的鯊魚,那我們就是長江里的揚(yáng)子鱷。咱們不在大海里打架,我們在長江里練練。一開始很困難,但是很有樂趣。而且我們最后活下來了。一開始eBay占據(jù)了中國C2C市場的90%。但是到了今天,我們擁有中國C2C市場90%的份額。我們很幸運(yùn),真的只是幸運(yùn)。很多事情以后我們還可以再討論。
今天,大家總是在寫關(guān)于阿里巴巴的成功故事。但是我并不真的認(rèn)為我們有多么聰明。我們犯了很多錯(cuò)誤。當(dāng)時(shí)我們還是很愚蠢的。所以我在想,如果哪天我要寫關(guān)于阿里巴巴的書,我會(huì)寫《阿里巴巴的一千零一個(gè)錯(cuò)誤》。這才是大家應(yīng)該記住的事情,應(yīng)該學(xué)習(xí)的事情。如果你想知道其他人是怎么成功的,這是非常難的。成功有很多幸運(yùn)的因素。但是如果你想學(xué)習(xí)別人是怎么失敗的,你就會(huì)受益很多。我總喜歡看那些探討人如何失敗的書。因?yàn)椋?dāng)你仔細(xì)去分析的時(shí)候,任何失敗的公司,他們失敗的原因總是不經(jīng)相同。而這才是最重要的。所以淘寶成功了,接下來我們做了支付寶,因?yàn)榇蠹叶颊f中國沒有信用體系,銀行很糟糕,物流很糟糕,你為什么還要做電子商務(wù)?今天,我不是來這里跟大家說我的生意經(jīng)的,我沒有準(zhǔn)備PPT,因?yàn)槲覜]有股票要賣給大家。但是我想正因?yàn)橹袊穆浜蟮奈锪、信用體系和銀行,我們才需要有創(chuàng)業(yè)精神。這就是我們需要?jiǎng)?chuàng)建自己的藍(lán)圖。所以我相信這個(gè)事情是你先做了,然后慢慢地就成了中國的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。我記得6年前當(dāng)我來美國的時(shí)候,我說我相信5年以后,中國的網(wǎng)民人口會(huì)超過美國。人們說,不會(huì)的。然后我說,你們的人口才3億。中國有13億人口不是嗎?如果讓你們有4 億人口,沒有人口死亡,人們還要不停地生孩子,你們需要50年的時(shí)間。我們只需要5年時(shí)間,所以這只是一個(gè)時(shí)間的問題,不是嗎?我們走著瞧。今天,中國網(wǎng)絡(luò)用戶的人口超過了美國。然后人們說為什么你們的購買力這么低?我們五年后在再說。今天,人均消費(fèi)大概只有200人民幣每月。5年以后,這些人會(huì)消費(fèi)2000元。而且我們很有耐心。我們還很年輕。我是老了,但是我們員工的平均年齡才26歲。他們還很年輕,所以讓我們期待未來。
當(dāng)時(shí)做支付寶的時(shí)候,大家說這是一個(gè)很傻的擔(dān)保服務(wù)。張三要從李四那里買點(diǎn)東西,但是張三不肯把錢匯給李四,李四也不肯把貨給張三。所以我們就開了一個(gè)賬戶,跟張三說,把錢先匯給我,如果你對貨物滿意,那么我付錢,如果你不滿意,你退貨,我退錢給李四。人們說你的這個(gè)模式怎么這么傻啊?但是我們不關(guān)心這個(gè)模式是不是傻,我們關(guān)心的是客戶是不是需要這樣的服務(wù)。我們是不是滿足了客戶的需求。如果這東西很傻的話,今天中國就有超過6億的注冊用戶在用這個(gè)傻東西。所以傻的東西,如果你每天都改善它一點(diǎn),那么它就會(huì)變得非常聰明。所以今天支付寶很好,我們還在成長。支付寶跟Paypal很像,但是我從交易量來說,我們比Paypal更大。
最后,也是最重要的,是我們的阿里云計(jì)算,這個(gè)公司跟其他那些談?wù)撛朴?jì)算的公司不同。那些公司是想把他們的軟件和硬件賣給你。但是我們沒什么可以賣的。我們通過云技術(shù)對自己的數(shù)據(jù)進(jìn)行計(jì)算。來自中小企業(yè)的數(shù)據(jù),來自淘寶消費(fèi)者的數(shù)據(jù),以及來自支付寶的數(shù)據(jù)。我們相信未來。未來的世界將是信息處理的世界。我們將如何很好地與他人分享數(shù)據(jù)。這將是未來商業(yè)的核心。這個(gè)公司目前還不是很好,但是盈利能力很強(qiáng)。
整個(gè)公司都很健康。一開始人家說這個(gè)公司不可能成的,但是我們活下來了。我們很有耐心。我們總在問自己一個(gè)問題“為什么我們還要這么辛勤地工作?有一天,我問我的同事,他告訴我,“Jack,我從來不知道我這輩子還能做這么多事情。第二,我從來不知道我現(xiàn)在做的事情對社會(huì)這么有意義。第三,我從來不知道生活是這么艱辛的。”我們沒日沒夜地工作,甚至是現(xiàn)在也是這樣。我變得更瘦了,而且長相更奇怪了。我知道生活不是容易的事。我們很驕傲,我們在改變中國,而不是你掙了很多錢。
10年前,當(dāng)我走在街上,有人跑過來感謝我,因?yàn)榘⒗锇桶蛶退麄兊玫搅藝獾挠唵、國外的生意。今天,?dāng)我走在街上,有人過來感謝我,說他和妻子在淘寶上開了個(gè)小店,以此為生,并且收入不錯(cuò)。這對我來說,意義重大。我們將誠信變得有價(jià)值(你的誠信是可以變成錢的)。許多年前,如果你有很好的信譽(yù)記錄、交易記錄,你可能還并不富有。今天,如果你在淘寶上有很好的信譽(yù)記錄、交易記錄,你將會(huì)非常富有,因?yàn)槿藗兌荚敢飧抛u(yù)好的店家做生意。我們教育消費(fèi)者要聰明。有人來跟我說:馬云,我在淘寶上買了個(gè)東西,非常非常便宜,你說這是假貨么?是的,我們淘寶上有假貨,假貨在現(xiàn)實(shí)生活中無處不在。但是我們用了非常多的努力,大量的人力物力來對付這個(gè)問題,在淘寶,有50%的工作人員每天的工作是篩查侵權(quán)、偽冒商品。但是如果有一瓶紅酒,在線下的商場里買要300美金,而在淘寶上只要9美金,為什么會(huì)這樣?因?yàn)榍、廣告費(fèi)用。為什么消費(fèi)者要為這么多其他費(fèi)用買單?我們幫消費(fèi)者省了,所以我們跟消費(fèi)者說,如果你在淘寶上買一件15塊錢的T恤,而它在商場里要賣150塊錢,那不是因?yàn)樘詫氋u的太便宜了,那是因?yàn)樯虉隼镔u的太貴了。我們應(yīng)該幫助消費(fèi)者變的更聰明。
第三點(diǎn),也是非常重要的一點(diǎn),我們看見在中國有很多的工廠,尤其是在廣東,他們其實(shí)是公司,并不僅僅是加工廠。他們僅僅是做代工,這些代工的產(chǎn)品之后就在淘寶上賣。他們不知道誰是他們的銷售渠道,也不了解最終購買他們產(chǎn)品的客戶。這種代工廠,在遇到有問題發(fā)生的時(shí)候(比如金融危機(jī)),會(huì)馬上陷入 困難。所以我們應(yīng)該告訴這些生產(chǎn)者,你必須直接跟你的客戶溝通,你應(yīng)該自己去做銷售,自己提供服務(wù),這才是真正的做生意。否則,你就只是個(gè)工廠。我們正在改變這些工廠,扭轉(zhuǎn)這種局面,我感到非常自豪。這與財(cái)富無關(guān),因?yàn)槿绻阌幸话偃f,你是個(gè)富有的人,但如果你有一千萬,那你可能就有麻煩了。你會(huì)擔(dān)心通貨膨脹,于是你開始投資,接著你就可能遇到困難。如果你有10億,那這就不是你個(gè)人的財(cái)富了,就是社會(huì)的財(cái)富了。你的股東、投資者,認(rèn)為你應(yīng)該比政府更能有效地使用這些錢。于是他們給你信任,那你要如何運(yùn)用好這筆錢,對得起他們的信任呢?我覺得這是我們所面臨的挑戰(zhàn)。阿里巴巴的產(chǎn)品,其實(shí)并不是服務(wù),是人,是我們的員工。
我們員工的平均年齡是26歲。我們正面臨著許許多多的挑戰(zhàn),這些是我曾經(jīng)所沒有意識(shí)到的。曾有一位政府高層來公司訪問,他說馬云,如果你們淘寶有3億用戶,那就已經(jīng)比我管理的國家還要大了。我說是的,這個(gè)管理的難度非常大。不管我們制定出什么新的政策,都會(huì)讓我們遇到各種壓力。但用戶有抱怨的時(shí)候,就好像是對制定政策的政府不滿似的。就是這些平均年齡26歲的員工,在制定著淘寶的“游戲規(guī)則”,我們從未有過這樣的經(jīng)歷。如果我們改變一下,比如說做搜索引擎,傳統(tǒng)的搜索引擎,會(huì)讓賣的好、最便宜的排在前面,但我想,我們會(huì)讓最有信用和信譽(yù)的排在最前面。之后,會(huì)有很多的人會(huì)去驗(yàn)證。有200個(gè)人來 到我們公司,跟我說,我們會(huì)為改變游戲規(guī)則而付出代價(jià)。我的回答是,如果這個(gè)改變是正確的,我們就要做下去。眼前的這個(gè)世界,也是我們改造出來的。我們不需要不能服務(wù)于人的項(xiàng)目。我們需要社會(huì)學(xué)家,經(jīng)濟(jì)學(xué)家,讓這些人來制定我們的政策規(guī)則。所以我們還面臨著許許多多的考驗(yàn)。但我們?nèi)杂X得驕傲,因?yàn)槲蚁嘈旁?1世紀(jì),如果你想做一家成功的公司,你需要學(xué)會(huì)的是如何解決社會(huì)上存在的某個(gè)問題,而不僅僅是學(xué)會(huì)如何抓住幾個(gè)機(jī)會(huì)。抓住機(jī)會(huì)是非常容易的,我不是吹牛,我覺得今天,在阿里巴巴成立12年后,我覺得賺錢非常容易,但是要穩(wěn)定的賺錢,并且對社會(huì)負(fù)起責(zé)任、推動(dòng)社會(huì)的發(fā)展,非常難。這也是我們正在努力為之的,我相信中國因?yàn)橛辛嘶ヂ?lián)網(wǎng),在未來的3年內(nèi)會(huì)有很大的發(fā)展。今年,人們說很多中國的股票因?yàn)閂IE掉了很多。我相信,如果你看看其他地區(qū)的經(jīng)濟(jì),比如美國目前正面臨巨大考驗(yàn);比如歐洲可能已經(jīng)無所適從;那中國會(huì)怎么樣?所有發(fā)生在美國和歐洲的情況,三四年后也會(huì)發(fā)生在中國。三四年后,中國的經(jīng)濟(jì)將面臨巨大的挑戰(zhàn)。如果你預(yù)感到了將會(huì)有糟糕的事情發(fā)生,那就從現(xiàn)在開始為之做準(zhǔn)備,而不是到時(shí)候抱怨和哀嚎。作為互聯(lián)網(wǎng)公司,我們必須承擔(dān)起我們的責(zé)任。我不是政治家,我只為自己說話,為我的客戶—5000萬中小企業(yè)者和800萬淘寶賣家說話。他們在3年后要如何生存下去?這也是我此次來到美國想要去學(xué)習(xí) 的。跟奧巴馬學(xué)習(xí),他將如何增加就業(yè),他會(huì)怎么做,從錯(cuò)誤中整理經(jīng)驗(yàn),然后在3年后,用我們的方法,幫助我們自己。這就是為什么我會(huì)來這里。我想你們一定 也有很多的問題,我準(zhǔn)備好了回答你們的所有問題。
問:馬云,你剛才自己已經(jīng)提到了,所以我希望你誠實(shí)的回答你自己的那個(gè)問題:你準(zhǔn)備收購雅虎么?
答:好問題。是的。我們非常感興趣。我們對雅虎很感興趣,是因?yàn)榘⒗锇桶图瘓F(tuán)是雅虎的重要資產(chǎn),而雅虎的資產(chǎn)對阿里巴巴、對互聯(lián)網(wǎng)用戶及整個(gè)行業(yè)也都非常重要。所以我們感興趣。所有的潛在投資者也與我們溝通過。他們可能還會(huì)跟我們有更進(jìn)一步的溝通。
問:關(guān)于想要收購他們,你有沒有跟雅虎初步溝通過?
答:目前,我只能跟你說,我們對此很感興趣。
問:今天早上陳一舟說,任何關(guān)于VIE的問題,都可以去問馬云。中國政府已經(jīng)通過了國家安全審查制度,你怎么看這一制度的影響?你覺得這個(gè)制度會(huì)嚴(yán)重影響中國公司獲得境外融資么?
答:有很多人在討論VIE。我很迷惑。我花了很多時(shí)間學(xué)習(xí)什么是VIE,也沒搞明白這到底是個(gè)什么東西。首先,VIE是個(gè)偉大的創(chuàng)新。我相信在10年前,這是個(gè)偉大的創(chuàng)新。它幫助中國的互聯(lián)網(wǎng)及其他高科技行業(yè)的發(fā)展。阿里巴巴也由此獲益不少。我不認(rèn)為政府會(huì)禁止VIE,也不明白為什么人們會(huì)如此擔(dān)心。但是,在某些敏感的領(lǐng)域或者行業(yè),比如說金融行業(yè),政府會(huì)比較小心這種模式,對此我非常理解和贊同。不管在哪個(gè)國家,如果外資控股的公司想要獲得銀行牌照,都會(huì)被反對,在中國也如此。關(guān)于VIE模式,我沒聽說哪個(gè)政府說要取締它,所以為什么要擔(dān)心呢?前幾天我讀了一篇關(guān)于“Shao Kong Chuen”的文章,他們的變化非常棒,我開始了解VIE真的是合法的、透明的。這就是互聯(lián)網(wǎng)的力量。在10年之后,如果在某些敏感的行業(yè),VIE讓你覺得不舒服,請你加入我們,一起討論。有人說你們的支付寶有問題,我坦誠的講,因?yàn)檫@個(gè),我們把VIE放到桌面上來講。當(dāng)人民銀行問支付寶是否有國外投資者,我必須說真話。這個(gè)你同意吧?因?yàn)槲覀儼l(fā)展的越來越大,所以需要做的工作非常多。就好像今天,如果我說我想買Paypal,你覺得美國政府會(huì)毫無反應(yīng)么?他們一定會(huì)有所舉動(dòng)!就算是收購雅虎,他們也會(huì)!所以,我們必須公平的去說這個(gè)問題。這不是個(gè)什么大的問題。這就是一種姿態(tài)。擺在桌子上來說、來討論它,我不認(rèn)為政府會(huì)禁止它。
問:如果讓你回頭重來,你還會(huì)這么做么?
答:我們經(jīng)歷了很困難的一段時(shí)間。今天,當(dāng)所有的事情都很順利,我反而覺得不太對勁。在美國,你們稱之為偏執(zhí)狂,我的確是的。在中國雅虎上,我們的確犯了很多的錯(cuò)誤。但如果回到過去,我們還會(huì)買下中國雅虎么?是的,我們還會(huì)買!但我們還會(huì)以這種方式么?不,我們不會(huì)了。我們會(huì)用更聰明的方法。我沒有任何的并購經(jīng)驗(yàn),尤其是并購互聯(lián)網(wǎng)公司。所以如果你問我,對雅虎是否感興趣,是的,我當(dāng)然感興趣。我們可能是極少數(shù)幾家真正懂得雅虎美國的公司之一。人們說,中國雅虎那么糟糕,你怎么還好意思說你很懂美國雅虎?我要說我們四年前解決了很多的問題,如果不那么做,我們今天可能就死了。所以我們愿意跟大家分享,我們是如何節(jié)約了開支,如何解雇一些人,那時(shí)候我們必須早一點(diǎn)解雇一部分人,留下一部分人。我覺得現(xiàn)在的互聯(lián)網(wǎng)公司都應(yīng)該好好想想,能從雅虎的事情中學(xué)到什么。如果我們不從別人的錯(cuò)誤中學(xué)習(xí),我們遲早有一天也會(huì)受到同樣的挑戰(zhàn)。
問:你是如何管理淘寶的?關(guān)于和京東的競爭,你會(huì)在物流方面做更多的事么?或者改變你的模式?在支付寶的事上,你希望跟孫正義和楊致遠(yuǎn)有怎樣的交流?
答:淘寶成長得太快了,而且會(huì)越來越快。這對我們來說是個(gè)挑戰(zhàn),因?yàn)槲覀儚臎]運(yùn)營過這么大的公司。我不喜歡“帝國”這個(gè)說法,我相信“生態(tài)系統(tǒng)”。我是大自然保護(hù)協(xié)會(huì)的董事。我相信每個(gè)人都要跟其他人發(fā)生聯(lián)系,彼此互相幫助。淘寶發(fā)展的太大太快,為此我很擔(dān)心。我們可以給這個(gè)行業(yè)更多的機(jī)會(huì),所以在今年6月份,我們把淘寶拆分成4個(gè)部分。變成更小一些的公司,可以給其他競爭者以機(jī)會(huì)。如果十年后,我們還是非常大,我還會(huì)再拆成3個(gè)部分。我要確保,我們把大公司運(yùn)作得像小公司一樣。給其他的人,尤其是年輕人機(jī)會(huì)去經(jīng)營他們的生意,因?yàn)檫@是他們的年代。淘寶就像騰訊、谷歌和facebook,它不是一間中國的公司,不僅僅屬于中國或者美國,它屬于21世紀(jì)的這個(gè)時(shí)代。你需要用不同的方式去運(yùn)用這個(gè)公司。坦白的說,最好的方法是什么,我也不知道。我們做好了承擔(dān)錯(cuò)誤的準(zhǔn)備,我們相信我們是在一個(gè)生態(tài)系統(tǒng)中,不是在一個(gè)帝國中。
第二個(gè)問題,關(guān)于跟京東的競爭。我不認(rèn)為淘寶的模式有什么問題。我們在不斷成長,而且要掙錢非常容易。我不認(rèn)為我們需要改變模式。我不看好這種低價(jià)買來東西然后在網(wǎng)上高價(jià)賣出去的模式,這是個(gè)很愚蠢的模式。去年中國的快遞包裹數(shù)是21億個(gè)。淘寶占到了11億個(gè),今年可能會(huì)達(dá)到30億個(gè)。我們不想搞自己的物流體系。中國大概需要1000萬個(gè)快遞員人員。我們怎么可能運(yùn)營一個(gè)有1000萬員工的公司?目前我們有23000員工,這已經(jīng)讓我很頭疼 了。我們要做的,是幫助和支持這些物流公司提供更好的物流服務(wù),讓他們給自己的員工提供更好的福利。我們從未想過建立自己的物流公司,以前沒有,以后也不會(huì)。
關(guān)于支付寶、楊致遠(yuǎn)和孫正義,我已經(jīng)回答過很多次了,但是我還可以再說一次。他們都是很好的朋友和伙伴。我理解在一開始人們說,Jack你們可以……還有關(guān)于VIE……我們爭執(zhí)不休。我們得到了更準(zhǔn)確的信息,所以我就告訴他們。
今天支付寶發(fā)展很快,但是我們卻還沒有掙很多錢。所以,這是一個(gè)挑戰(zhàn),年輕人,讓我們來創(chuàng)造一個(gè)更好的模式。我跟楊致遠(yuǎn),孫正義之間的溝通是非常健康的。但是不幸的是,外面的傳言是我在沒過通知董事會(huì)之前把公司給拿走了。讓我來告訴你們真相。他們是知道的,而且我們一起討論過。時(shí)至今日,問題解決了。但是這是一個(gè)挑戰(zhàn),我遇到過很多艱難的日子。這就是我需要面對的眾多難關(guān)之一。其他人總覺得是容易的,他們說你要這么做那么做。但是如果支付寶死了,淘寶的800萬家賣家會(huì)遇到麻煩,我不能讓這發(fā)生,如果我不遵循中國的法律,我就會(huì)天天被叫去北京喝茶。每個(gè)人都想請我喝茶,告訴我如果你越做越大,你就會(huì)有麻煩了。所以我們要透明。今天,到了21世紀(jì),任何事情都應(yīng)該是透明的。不然你干嘛要這么努力工作?這就是需要面對的現(xiàn)實(shí)。
問:如何看到淘寶的國際合作?他們還沒有開放API。
答:我們愿意向非中國公司開放API。當(dāng)然這個(gè)關(guān)系到支付,非常困難。我看到很多海外華人問我他們怎么樣可以在國外上淘寶買東西。我們正在盡自己最大的努力。如果能解決支付的問題,事情的發(fā)展速度就會(huì)加快。淘寶就沒必要一直呆在中國。我認(rèn)為淘寶不屬于中國,它屬于整個(gè)世界,屬于一代人。讓我們一 起確保我們可以幫助到更多的人。
問:外國企業(yè)要進(jìn)入中國非常困難。你對幫助外國公司有什么計(jì)劃嗎?
答:在世界任何一個(gè)地方做生意都是困難的。我相信中國的企業(yè)在美國也遇到過同樣的問題。甚至是很多非常成功的中國公司在美國。在美國有什么有名的中國公司嗎?(觀眾:華為,阿里巴巴)阿里巴巴,還沒吧?聯(lián)想?你們認(rèn)為那是成功嗎?我認(rèn)為在中國我們有成功的外國公司——IBM, 微軟,Oracle. 去世界的任何一個(gè)地方都需要花時(shí)間。我記得我的朋友Kara Swisher在數(shù)字大會(huì)上問過我這個(gè)問題。沒有一個(gè)市場是是歡迎賭徒的。你去到一個(gè)地方給當(dāng)?shù)厝藙?chuàng)造價(jià)值,你就有一半的成功機(jī)會(huì)。所以我相信在今天的世界做生意是非常難的。昨天我跟我的妻子在辯論,美國的商業(yè)化程度很高,感覺什么時(shí)候都是連鎖化的,沃爾瑪,連咖啡店都是連鎖的。你怎么能在這里做中小企業(yè)。我旁邊有一個(gè)教授,他跟我說,讓我們來辯論一下在哪個(gè)國家更容易做生意,美國還是中國,F(xiàn)在的中國如果你還說什么關(guān)系,那還是算了。在過去的12年 中,我一直在說,如果有人跑過來跟你說他們跟市長的關(guān)系很好,我看還是算了。世界上唯一的關(guān)系是你的客戶。如果你的客戶喜歡你,政府就一定會(huì)喜歡你。相信我。他們需要稅收。他們需要就業(yè)。但是如果你只想拿了便宜就跑的話,那你就有麻煩了。過去12年我跟政府的關(guān)系是,我們一直在戀愛,但是我們不會(huì)跟政府結(jié)婚。永遠(yuǎn)是這樣,我愛他們。每次他們來找我,我告訴他們真相。我按照他們說的做。但是如果要跟我做生意的話,抱歉。我的朋友跟政府做生意,但是我沒有。只有這樣,你才能獲得政府的尊重。如果他們對支付寶是認(rèn)真的,那我們就聽他們的。這個(gè)是法律,這個(gè)不是政府關(guān)系。我的建議是看得遠(yuǎn)永遠(yuǎn)是有點(diǎn)可怕的。但是你要走過去,跳進(jìn)去,因?yàn)橹挥挟?dāng)你跳進(jìn)了水里,你才能學(xué)會(huì)游泳。中國不是那么糟糕。但是有人問我為什么中國沒有蘋果。美國的資本主義已經(jīng)有200多年的歷 史,對嗎?土壤非常肥沃。但是中國從鄧小平改革開放以來只有30年。我們有像阿里巴巴、百度、騰訊、新浪這樣的公司,這也不錯(cuò)。讓我們再等30年。我們會(huì)有偉大的公司,但是他們不屬于中國,他們屬于互聯(lián)網(wǎng)時(shí)代,屬于80后,90后,以及00后。這些人才是真正改變世界,改變未來的力量。
問:你們?nèi)虿呗晕磥淼挠?jì)劃是什么?
答:曾經(jīng)當(dāng)我們有錢了,我們就開始犯錯(cuò)誤。我們招了很多MBA,很多跨國公司的副總裁,我們開始考慮全球化。然后我們又說讓我們回到根本,回到中國,回到中國的沿海地區(qū)。我們告訴自己,要放眼全球,但贏在當(dāng)?shù)。不論你的愿景有多么美好,你必須要腳踏實(shí)地,努力工作每一天。所以,很多年過去了,我們?nèi)匀幌嘈乓腥蚧囊曇,但是贏在中國。我們拓展了日本、印度和歐洲市場,我們也沒有關(guān)掉美國的辦公室。我需要學(xué)習(xí)。我需要向財(cái)富500強(qiáng)的CEO請教一個(gè)問題,既然他們都看好中國市場,為什么沒有放棄一切在中國呆上一年?如果你想了解中國,你需要在中國花點(diǎn)時(shí)間。我想在美國生活一段時(shí)間,看看我們怎么可以幫助美國的中小企業(yè),到底亞馬遜、eBay跟我們有什么不同。我們從來不應(yīng)該花2年的時(shí)間去做一個(gè)需要20年才能完成的事業(yè)。我們有時(shí)間, 我們還年輕。我還有時(shí)間。我們會(huì)一步一步地走,不是看我們能從國外市場獲取多少收入而是你能為他人帶來多少價(jià)值,F(xiàn)在已經(jīng)有5000萬中國以外的中小企業(yè)使用我們的服務(wù)。免費(fèi)的永遠(yuǎn)是最好的。我們會(huì)一直朝這個(gè)方向努力。謝謝。
問:你覺得美國對中國最大的誤解是什么?中國對美國最大的誤解又是什么?
答:老實(shí)說,我不知道怎么回答這個(gè)問題。我想可能有很多誤解。前幾天我在寫我的微博的時(shí)候,也在考慮這個(gè)問題。每個(gè)人都覺得我了解這個(gè)世界。我對中國里里外外的東西都知道。但是我不知道。鄧小平不了解,毛澤東也不了解。
沒有人完全了解中國。又有人說我對美國里里外外的東西都知道。但是我不知道,奧巴馬也不知道。不然他就可以解決美國的問題了,不是嗎?喬治布什也不完全知道。要了解一個(gè)事情是不容易的,但是你先要了解自己。你需要什么?你想要什么?你愿意放棄什么?如果我能更好地了解自己,我就可以改變自己更好地適應(yīng)外面的世界。中美之間始終都有誤解,就像全中國其他地方的人跟河南人都有誤解一樣。我們的工作不是解除誤解,而是改變自己來適應(yīng)他人。所以,我不知道。 這是一個(gè)很好的問題。我來這里是因?yàn)槲铱吹胶芏嗝绹具有美國人對中國指指點(diǎn)點(diǎn),但是他們卻從來沒有來過中國。
很多中國人指責(zé)美國,但是卻從來沒來過美國。但是如果我們不學(xué)著互相欣賞,不常;ハ鄬徱暋N一ㄔ诿绹臅r(shí)間越長,我就越喜歡美國。然后我在中國花的時(shí)間越多,我就會(huì)說哦,這個(gè)溝通方式在政治上太不明智了。因?yàn)檎问欠浅?fù)雜的。我樂意做的事情只有一件。那就是從商。我不喜歡網(wǎng)絡(luò)游戲,我覺得這個(gè)世界上最好的游戲就是創(chuàng)造財(cái)富。幫助大洋兩岸的中小企業(yè)做生意,幫助他們互相了解。我的爺爺通過看報(bào)紙了解外面的世界,我的爸爸通過看電視了解外面的世界,我這代人通過看電視了解外面的世界,我的孩子通過互聯(lián)網(wǎng)了解外面的世界。他們說我想加入其中。我覺得我們的時(shí)機(jī)已經(jīng)到了。讓我們共同建設(shè)互聯(lián)網(wǎng)。美國發(fā)生的任何事情我們都可以第一時(shí)間在中國了解到。同樣任何在中國的發(fā)生事情,我們在美國也可以很快知道。哈哈,別笑。讓我們懷著欣賞的心態(tài)看待事物。腳踏實(shí)地一步一步地做事很重要,而不是想著一蹴而就。謝謝。
問:馬云,你曾說過,在你早先來硅谷的時(shí)候,拒絕過很多VC的投資。但是在硅谷,有位投資者,在阿里巴巴的成功之路上起到了非常重要的作用,這就是楊致遠(yuǎn)的雅虎,他們在2005年時(shí)向阿里巴巴投資了10億美金。你能說說你跟楊致遠(yuǎn)的關(guān)系么,你們是怎么開始建立這個(gè)關(guān)系以及目前關(guān)系如何。還有那筆投資對阿里巴巴的成長和成功是如何的不可或缺?
答:首先,楊致遠(yuǎn)是我非常好的朋友,我一生的朋友。兩個(gè)家庭的關(guān)系也非常好。但是關(guān)于那筆投資,完全是商業(yè)行為。雅虎在2005年給阿里巴巴的投資,是對雙方都有利的。沒有雅虎美國的投資,我們不會(huì)有今天的成功。因?yàn)槲覀儾粌H需要錢去解決公司的問題,我們還需要用錢去解決創(chuàng)業(yè)投資者的問題。沒有跟雅虎的這筆交易,我們永遠(yuǎn)無法從跟大公司的合作中學(xué)習(xí)東西。比如大公司存在什么樣的問題,我們?nèi)绾螐闹刑岣咦约骸?br />
但在將來,如果今天的局勢不改變,我們永遠(yuǎn)沒有光明的未來。我們必須做一些改變,所以我覺得公平的說,我們感謝昨天,但是我們要追求更好的明天。每個(gè)公司都應(yīng)該如此。今天,我和楊致遠(yuǎn)依然是很好的朋友,我們一起聊天,打高爾夫。將來,也會(huì)是如此,我們依然熱愛雅虎。雅虎是為數(shù)不多的喚起我對互 聯(lián)網(wǎng)認(rèn)知和信心的公司之一,對此,我終身都會(huì)感激。沒有互聯(lián)網(wǎng),就不會(huì)有今天的馬云,今天的阿里巴巴和淘寶。
問:你剛剛提到過你對收購雅虎很感興趣。此行你去拜訪過雅虎了嗎?你打算如何收購雅虎?
答:我會(huì)非常誠實(shí)的回答你的問題。第一個(gè)問題,我還沒有。我已經(jīng)在這里待了15天,大部分的時(shí)間,我都用來吃飯和睡覺。我還沒有沒有時(shí)間去。我 覺得目前來說,對我最重要的事就是睡覺,因?yàn)橐欢温L的、困難的階段馬上會(huì)來。第二個(gè)問題,你問我會(huì)如何收購。我們對整體收購很感興趣(Kara Swisher:你指的是你們整個(gè)集團(tuán)來收購還是說收購整個(gè)雅虎?)整個(gè)雅虎。中國雅虎目前已經(jīng)是我們的了,已經(jīng)在我的口袋中。(非常感謝你明確的回答, 那大概什么時(shí)候會(huì)開始呢?)坦誠的說,我不知道。這比我們想象的還要復(fù)雜,還有很多人對此很感興趣,我們已經(jīng)有過溝通。據(jù)我所知,問題的關(guān)鍵不在于錢,而是董事會(huì)內(nèi)部的政治斗爭。所以,我現(xiàn)在只能肯定的告訴你,我對這個(gè)收購非常感興趣。
「標(biāo)簽: 大學(xué)生英語演講稿」